Gentleman Rocketeers Double CD & DVD set

Bill Nelson · **Joined:** Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:40 pm **Posts:** 8462

As has been pointed out before, we were already aware of the 'artist-unfriendly' nature of the contract previous to agreeing to it. In fact I almost didn't agree to do it...the only reason I eventually went ahead with it was because we were led to believe that it was intended to be a tv series...the DVD was mentioned almost as a side-issue, a 'by the way.'

The contract did stipulate that the performance, both visual and soundtrack, would become the property of the companies behind the 'Legends' series. Now, normally, I wouldn't enter into such an unfriendly deal but it was felt that the exposure given to my music, by it being televised, would be of benefit and therefore it was deemed worth giving away certain rights in return for the dangled television exposure.

BUT...as we all now know, there has been no UK broadcast of the performance, though it has, apparently, been broadcast in the far east. (Which I only discovered because a fan posted here on the site about it. We were not informed of it by the company.) However, the DVD was rushed out in double quick time.

The deal was that the artist would receive a modest royalty from the sale of these DVDs but only after the companies owning the material had received £30,000 in personal profit, (Clearly, whatever sales are left to be had after that amount of profit is returned to the companies, will be minor and generate very little for the artist.)

We have asked for documentation of the previous DVD's sales but were told that the rights had been moved on to another company. (I find this more than a little suspicious.)
I know that some other artists and their managers who were involved with the series feel equally wrong-footed by all of this. So, it's not just me.

Meanwhile, Big Country were recently approached by the same people to take part in yet another 'Legends' series. And again, the 'sales pitch' was that it was going to be televised. Fortunately, Big Country decided not to accept as they had heard bad things about it from previous participants and 'smelled a rat.'
So whoever is behind this thing is still using the TV angle as bait to get bands to sign away their rights to their performances, both vision and sound...

But, things being what they are, my point of contention is that my management and myself still should have been informed of this latest re-issue of the DVD and especially the Cds, if only as a matter of courtesy.
It's stupid and bad business practice not to get the artists involvement and approval on such a thing. Not doing so reflects badly on those who are manufacturing the product and makes them appear cynical and disinterested in the product's quality. It reveals them as being not just exploitive of artists, but of fans too.
Even EMI and UNIVERSAL sought my involvement with the re-issue of albums they held the rights to. It's standard and proper practice in an 'above board' business world.

Neil Windsor · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:12 pm

I find it incredible that a music indusrty that bemoans the steady drop in sales and revenue and it's general decline still has the cheek and nerve to treat any artist in this manner. These people finally need to be told that if not for the artist they'd be stacking shelves in Tescos (not that there's anything wrong in that) They live of the backs of the artists and haven't got the common decency to even consider the relationship as a partnership - something that brings mutual benefit to both parties. Greed and a lack of empathy with the creative source that keeps them in shiny suits. It makes my blood boil that after all these years the penny hasn't dropped with them...nurture and support the artist and a long lasting relationship reaps greater rewards all round. If these Legends moguls had the sense they were born with then more may have come from the project but it's always the same - quick buck and screw the artist.
I know this doesn't help or resolve the situation but I had to get it off my chest.

Keep smiling Bill and rest soundly in the knowledge that you were right all along.

25th April ...Anzac Day and someone's birthday...

James Ellis · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:15 pm

Just a few observations, this does appear to have put the mockers on any live Gentlemen Rocketeers CD, should you wish to put one out, you would be competing with your self now, Thus depreiving you & your associates of valuble income,

Where contract states £30,000 personal profit, is that gross or net ?
So company can sell your product in any form it wishes, make a £30,000 pound profit & then after this, hand over residual income!

Was there any time limit on this deal, or are we going to see this appearing over & over & over again, reapackaged to make it look like a new effort,

I'd be tempted to go head to head with anybody that does this, release your own live archives,

The ticket sales from the night paid for the studio performance anyway, just how much money did Metropolis contribute to the Live performance upfront,

Unbeliveable.

Fellini · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:30 pm

The product info gives the following details:

Product details
Audio CD (4 Jun 2012)
Number of Discs: 3
Format: Collector's Edition, Extra tracks, Box set
Label: Salvo
ASIN: B007WR332G

Salvo describes itself thus:
Salvo is Union Square Music's collector's label, re-issuing classic albums and releasing unique compilations and artist and label CD box sets and downloads.

Fellini · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:33 pm

Bill Nelson wrote:

there will be a high quality re-issue of the Noise Candy box set via Cherry Red/Esoteric before too long,

I'll definitely wait for that one instead

felixt1 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:55 pm

Fellini wrote:

The product info gives the following details:

Product details
Audio CD (4 Jun 2012)
Number of Discs: 3
Format: Collector's Edition, Extra tracks, Box set
Label: Salvo
ASIN: B007WR332G

Salvo describes itself thus:
Salvo is Union Square Music's collector's label, re-issuing classic albums and releasing unique compilations and artist and label CD box sets and downloads.

Interesting, I wonder if Salvo have any obligation or intention of honouring the original royalty agreement tying in with the 30,000 net profit target........or have Metropolis(or whoever it is?) sold the rights on to Salvo, made their money back with an end result that after the sale, further rights holders - Salvo or otherwise - are no longer binded to the original agreement?

paulconnolly · **Joined:** Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:30 pm **Posts:** 672

Mr Magnetism Himself wrote:

sauropod wrote:

Would it help the situation if a few of us not-so-well-heeled fans contacted whatever company is producing this and either 1) implore them not to do it, or 2) make sure BN gets a top cut on all the earnings?

Is it me, or is this "the world has gone completely mad, part 12345?" :lol:

We spend all our time bemoaning the fact that Bill hasn't had any decent exposure for years and doesn't sell many CDs. Yet the moment something comes along and a mass-market release is in the pipeline, we're suggesting writing to the production company asking them NOT to release it?? :shock:

I appreciate that Bill didn't know anything about it. And that it's not clear if he will make any money from it. But I would guess that both these points should be covered by the contract for the original recording.

So rather than complain about the release, why not RECOMMEND it as much as possible? Even if Bill gets nothing from it, there's surely a possibility that people will move on to buy some of his self-published work?

Well it's a bit of a double-edged sword to be sure and I'm certain once Bill recovers from his apoplexy :wink:

) he will give a considered response to your suggestion Mr. MH.

asterisk · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:01 pm

felixt1 wrote:

Interesting, I wonder if Salvo have any obligation or intention of honouring the original royalty agreement tying in with the 30,000 net profit target........or have Metropolis(or whoever it is?) sold the rights on to Salvo, made their money back with an end result that after the sale, further rights holders - Salvo or otherwise - are no longer binded to the original agreement?

Here's my take. This is the new owner of the recordings and no, they can now do with it as they wish. Why would they encomber themselves in any contract they were never a part of. But this sort of thing is typically common of many companies. I suspect that Metropolis had no more funding, and hence no more potential for this project. They ran with a plan, intentional or not, based on a false pretence and reached the end of profitability, and so off-loaded it to another company who sees potential in it.

But this is not neccesarily a bad thing. It can actually be good if the new rights holder has some sort of plan to include Bill into the deal. But if they've gone this far then it doesn't look very good. So at this point I would have to say that the best solice has to be found in the words of Mr MH. For us as supporters, we have a superb DVD previously unimaginable. So let's not forget that. Amazingly lucky there.

But the other reality is that this entire 'fiasco'(if I may) has obviously weighed very heavily on Bill. So our joy, although not entirely immaterial, isn't going to make up for the fact this has become a major burden. Hopefully the OA crew will come up with something a little more positive soon. Best of luck on that Bill.

Holy Ghost · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2005 8:21 pm **Posts:** 41

The type of gig Bill did at Metropolis seems to be an ongoing thing since the last series that included Bill. Heaven 17, Level 42 and Belinda Carlisle are all names that have done or are booked to do gigs there.

James Ellis · **Posted:** Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:10 pm

I'm no music biz lawyer type, but I would of thought that Bill's agreement was with the undersigned Metropolis & not another company,

Could the contract be declared invalid now ? since there is no agreement in place in writing with the new company rights holders,

www.billnelson.com

Gentleman Rocketeers Double CD & DVD set

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